Dat is sick; Let's watch the super fast computers flick the screen >:D

I wonder if Karune fully understood the second question? Its not just a players viewable screen and control, but actually a video of where his camera was at every point in the game.

Karune generously provided an insightful answer to what I think was a garbage first question. The map wraparound is really cool, though.

MapWrap is so awesome.

I don't understand the MapWrap meaning.
It mean that if i go top north and keep going north i will appear from south?

JEKE wrote:I don't understand the MapWrap meaning.
It mean that if i go top north and keep going north i will appear from south?

He didn't really answer that question well, it might just be that you can add zones that teleport units to the other side of the map when they enter (which is kinda lame). What would be really cool is if the world visually wraps around, like it can do in Civ IV for example.

So now the colosus do alot more dmg than the first battle report. he will be able to 1 hit some unit if they aren't upgraded . now he will probably a good unit to harras the economie

I currently read in the blues post some of the things they are doing with the ghost and the upgrades. Here are my thoughts on these two subjects.

1st, the ghost getting a slight down grade from "caster killer" to "some type of support unit" is sad. The reason I feel this way is because the ghost went from 100 minerals and 100 gas to 100 minerals and 200 gas. This makes the ghost a very expensive unit to produce and mass production will be difficult to obtain. In fact, the ghost almost cost as much as a THOR does in the gas department. This is really weird and way off in my opinion.

Ghost should not cost a lot and should be lethal special operation units period. This really saddens me because the ghost seems like it is going to be a weak unit that cannot really compete in combat, but is really only useful for special abilities. This recent change in the Ghost structure really weakens the Ghost IMO. Especially since this unit cost 200 GAS!!!!

Now for upgrades!

5. Marauders get just under the shield of Immortals (counters them early game), but as both sides get more upgrades, the relationship becomes muddier and goes in favor of the Immortals. (Immortals with 3 shield upgrade takes only 7 damage per hit currently)


This was the answer Blizzard gave TL. This is really really bad IMO. The reason I hate this upgrade system is the fact that if I am a good player and I upgrade my units with +2 attack it is going to hurt my damage output? You are reducing the effectiveness of my marauder because I upgraded it???? So now my marauder becomes LESS EFFECTIVE because I am a GOOD player and UPGRADED my unit? So now I have to change my tactics because my marauders, because of the upgrade I gave them, activates the hardened shields of the immortals???

Can anyone shed a positive light on this? I find this rediculious

AUDIE wrote:This was the answer Blizzard gave TL. This is really really bad IMO. The reason I hate this upgrade system is the fact that if I am a good player and I upgrade my units with +2 attack it is going to hurt my damage output? You are reducing the effectiveness of my marauder because I upgraded it???? So now my marauder becomes LESS EFFECTIVE because I am a GOOD player and UPGRADED my unit? So now I have to change my tactics because my marauders, because of the upgrade I gave them, activates the hardened shields of the immortals???

Can anyone shed a positive light on this? I find this rediculious

yea i think that to, but they should do if both are upgrade the immortal will get stronger

shadowie wrote:

JEKE wrote:I don't understand the MapWrap meaning.
It mean that if i go top north and keep going north i will appear from south?

He didn't really answer that question well, it might just be that you can add zones that teleport units to the other side of the map when they enter (which is kinda lame). What would be really cool is if the world visually wraps around, like it can do in Civ IV for example.

Agreed, I hope that is the case though Shadowie.

AUDIE wrote:5. Marauders get just under the shield of Immortals (counters them early game), but as both sides get more upgrades, the relationship becomes muddier and goes in favor of the Immortals. (Immortals with 3 shield upgrade takes only 7 damage per hit currently)


... You are reducing the effectiveness of my marauder because I upgraded it???? So now my marauder becomes LESS EFFECTIVE because I am a GOOD player and UPGRADED my unit? So now I have to change my tactics because my marauders, because of the upgrade I gave them, activates the hardened shields of the immortals???

You're mistaken. Upgrading your Marauder does not lower its effectiveness at all - it just means that it doesn't raise its effectiveness at all. Upgrading the Immortal's defenses, however, does lower your Marauder's effectiveness vs. it.
AFAIK, the Immortal's Shield activates any time the damage is over 10 and lowers it to 10. However, this conflicts with what Karune said about the Marauders just getting under the Immortal's shield early and known info about the Marauder's attack damage and extra and the Immortal's defense type. (i.e. w/ no upgrades a Marauder ought to deal 20 dmg to an Immortal, which ought to be reduced to 10, which would contradict Karune's "get just under the shield of" statement...maybe Immortal Shield is an upgrade again, that'd explain this whole thing I'll ask Karune that, or otherwise what he meant, in the thread on the SC2 forum...maybe he'll answer)

shadowie wrote:

JEKE wrote:I don't understand the MapWrap meaning.
It mean that if i go top north and keep going north i will appear from south?

He didn't really answer that question well, it might just be that you can add zones that teleport units to the other side of the map when they enter (which is kinda lame). What would be really cool is if the world visually wraps around, like it can do in Civ IV for example.

Lot of Thanks Shadowie, my english level is a bit low.

AUDIE wrote:I currently read in the blues post some of the things they are doing with the ghost and the upgrades. Here are my thoughts on these two subjects.

1st, the ghost getting a slight down grade from "caster killer" to "some type of support unit" is sad. The reason I feel this way is because the ghost went from 100 minerals and 100 gas to 100 minerals and 200 gas. This makes the ghost a very expensive unit to produce and mass production will be difficult to obtain. In fact, the ghost almost cost as much as a THOR does in the gas department. This is really weird and way off in my opinion.

Ghost should not cost a lot and should be lethal special operation units period. This really saddens me because the ghost seems like it is going to be a weak unit that cannot really compete in combat, but is really only useful for special abilities. This recent change in the Ghost structure really weakens the Ghost IMO. Especially since this unit cost 200 GAS!!!!

Now for upgrades!

5. Marauders get just under the shield of Immortals (counters them early game), but as both sides get more upgrades, the relationship becomes muddier and goes in favor of the Immortals. (Immortals with 3 shield upgrade takes only 7 damage per hit currently)


This was the answer Blizzard gave TL. This is really really bad IMO. The reason I hate this upgrade system is the fact that if I am a good player and I upgrade my units with +2 attack it is going to hurt my damage output? You are reducing the effectiveness of my marauder because I upgraded it???? So now my marauder becomes LESS EFFECTIVE because I am a GOOD player and UPGRADED my unit? So now I have to change my tactics because my marauders, because of the upgrade I gave them, activates the hardened shields of the immortals???

Can anyone shed a positive light on this? I find this rediculious

There there don´t be sad I for one se this as something positive. Changes like this will create more diverse games and you´ll have to mix units perhaps even more then i sc1.
Lets say you´re building alot of Marauders maxing upgrades and you opponent gets full shield upgraded Immortals. If the game has gone that far there shouldn´t be a big problem for you to start producing Reapers instead since you allready should have a sufficient amount of Barracks. Poof and the Immortals are Toast and your´e Reapers are also fully uppgraded!
I must point out though that i don´t think we´ll se a high level game with only Marauders and Immortals
Feel better?

Tiger0211 wrote:(i.e. w/ no upgrades a Marauder ought to deal 20 dmg to an Immortal, which ought to be reduced to 10, which would contradict Karune's "get just under the shield of" statement...maybe Immortal Shield is an upgrade again

Or perhaps there's now a greater threshold for activating the Immortal's Hardened Shields. As it was, the Immortal couldn't take more than 10 damage/shot period. Perhaps now hits over 20 damage are sent down to 10, making the Immortal really vulnerable to units doing 15-20 damage.

While I think that'd make more sense of Karune's statement, the final parenthetical comment he offers *may* counter my whole assumption.

Karune wrote:Marauders get just under the shield of Immortals (counters them early game), but as both sides get more upgrades, the relationship becomes muddier and goes in favor of the Immortals. (Immortals with 3 shield upgrade takes only 7 damage per hit currently)

If he's basing the parenthetical on the previous upgrade commentary, I could be right. If that's a general statement, then the threshold is still set at 10 damage.

Idomis wrote:

Tiger0211 wrote:(i.e. w/ no upgrades a Marauder ought to deal 20 dmg to an Immortal, which ought to be reduced to 10, which would contradict Karune's "get just under the shield of" statement...maybe Immortal Shield is an upgrade again

Or perhaps there's now a greater threshold for activating the Immortal's Hardened Shields. As it was, the Immortal couldn't take more than 10 damage/shot period. Perhaps now hits over 20 damage are sent down to 10, making the Immortal really vulnerable to units doing 15-20 damage.

While I think that'd make more sense of Karune's statement, the final parenthetical comment he offers *may* counter my whole assumption.

Karune wrote:Marauders get just under the shield of Immortals (counters them early game), but as both sides get more upgrades, the relationship becomes muddier and goes in favor of the Immortals. (Immortals with 3 shield upgrade takes only 7 damage per hit currently)

If he's basing the parenthetical on the previous upgrade commentary, I could be right. If that's a general statement, then the threshold is still set at 10 damage.

yea i think the immortal will low down the dmg recevie from an immortal to 10

Well its kind of obvious what he meant by map wrap around if you go all the way to the right the map acts as a cylinder and you keep walking right but it doesn't work for north and south obviously. Then bases would be right next to each other.

Kontan wrote:

AUDIE wrote:I currently read in the blues post some of the things they are doing with the ghost and the upgrades. Here are my thoughts on these two subjects.

1st, the ghost getting a slight down grade from "caster killer" to "some type of support unit" is sad. The reason I feel this way is because the ghost went from 100 minerals and 100 gas to 100 minerals and 200 gas. This makes the ghost a very expensive unit to produce and mass production will be difficult to obtain. In fact, the ghost almost cost as much as a THOR does in the gas department. This is really weird and way off in my opinion.

Ghost should not cost a lot and should be lethal special operation units period. This really saddens me because the ghost seems like it is going to be a weak unit that cannot really compete in combat, but is really only useful for special abilities. This recent change in the Ghost structure really weakens the Ghost IMO. Especially since this unit cost 200 GAS!!!!

Now for upgrades!

5. Marauders get just under the shield of Immortals (counters them early game), but as both sides get more upgrades, the relationship becomes muddier and goes in favor of the Immortals. (Immortals with 3 shield upgrade takes only 7 damage per hit currently)


This was the answer Blizzard gave TL. This is really really bad IMO. The reason I hate this upgrade system is the fact that if I am a good player and I upgrade my units with +2 attack it is going to hurt my damage output? You are reducing the effectiveness of my marauder because I upgraded it???? So now my marauder becomes LESS EFFECTIVE because I am a GOOD player and UPGRADED my unit? So now I have to change my tactics because my marauders, because of the upgrade I gave them, activates the hardened shields of the immortals???

Can anyone shed a positive light on this? I find this rediculious

There there don´t be sad I for one se this as something positive. Changes like this will create more diverse games and you´ll have to mix units perhaps even more then i sc1.
Lets say you´re building alot of Marauders maxing upgrades and you opponent gets full shield upgraded Immortals. If the game has gone that far there shouldn´t be a big problem for you to start producing Reapers instead since you allready should have a sufficient amount of Barracks. Poof and the Immortals are Toast and your´e Reapers are also fully uppgraded!
I must point out though that i don´t think we´ll se a high level game with only Marauders and Immortals
Feel better?

Yes it did, but I still think it needs to be looked at more closely, but after reading Tiger's post I am a little more comfortable with it. Reapers rule to, so using them for the example was a good idea, because it puts me in a good mood ^^.

I wonder if Tiger ever got a response from Karune on this topic? Hopefully Karune can clarify the mechanics in detail. Still, I will find a way to defeat the immortals.

Also I think immortals shields should be activated by TYPE of damage and not the damage amount, but I am no professional game designer. So I guess I will leave that up to the Devs.

AUDIE wrote:I wonder if Tiger ever got a response from Karune on this topic?

Nope. I asked it here and haven't got a response. I'll repost it in our Questions for Blizzard thread...maybe shadowie will email it to Karune and he'll answer it in Q&A 51. (just noticed it's been over 2 months since Q&A 50...guess they've been too busy with fansite Q&As and BRs to answer standard batches lately)

Tiger0211 wrote:

AUDIE wrote:I wonder if Tiger ever got a response from Karune on this topic?

Nope. I asked it here and haven't got a response. I'll repost it in our Questions for Blizzard thread...maybe shadowie will email it to Karune and he'll answer it in Q&A 51. (just noticed it's been over 2 months since Q&A 50...guess they've been too busy with fansite Q&As and BRs to answer standard batches lately)

2 months? Give it another 3 or 4 and then it will come out.

Nothing out of the norm.

AUDIE wrote:

Tiger0211 wrote:

AUDIE wrote:I wonder if Tiger ever got a response from Karune on this topic?

Nope. I asked it here and haven't got a response. I'll repost it in our Questions for Blizzard thread...maybe shadowie will email it to Karune and he'll answer it in Q&A 51. (just noticed it's been over 2 months since Q&A 50...guess they've been too busy with fansite Q&As and BRs to answer standard batches lately)

2 months? Give it another 3 or 4 and then it will come out.

Nothing out of the norm.

everyone will hardly wait that...

AUDIE wrote:2 months? Give it another 3 or 4 and then it will come out.

Nothing out of the norm.

http://www.sc2pod.com/trackers/blue/?id=1748
Looks like you're wrong. Not 3 or 4 more months, instead just 5 days.